The following will be the "James Collection". The passages are his side of many conversations we had over 3 days. James lives in Colorado. As the notes progressed I gathered, and he finally gave up, that he was not only a railroad enthusiast but had worked in the field. The talk ranged from trains to jeep trailing to local interests. He had connections to Oakdale which had spawned the exchange. Enough explaining. The following will be his words edited by me to exclude chit chat and personal stuff and a few secrets that Louisiana Jones, aka me, can't give away until the time is right.
Jim:
Thought you might like to see this picture my mother took of my father, brother, and me in August 1950. This was a southbound Missouri Pacific local from Alexandria that had gone into the siding. I think the crew had gone to lunch. This was right across from my grand parent's house and general store at the intersection of (a) street and Highway 165. Just South of here was the depot and freight station which are now gone. Two passenger trains a day went through Oakdale from Lake Charles to Little Rock.
I also used to go to a gravel pit north of Forrest Hill
that had a used Tremont and Gulf engine they used
to switch cars to the Missouri Pacific. The crew let
me ride on the engine with them. Looking back,
I'm lucky I didn't get hurt.
I found these two photos I took in an album I have. This is
the T&G engine I rode on. Pictures are poor quality and
this is best I could do retouching them. From the roster
on Mississippi rails it was scrapped in 1964.
Also, a picture I took at Long Leaf in the early fifties of
engine 202. Notice the whistle, bell, and number plate
on the front are still there. I think they have been
stolen since then.
Have you seen this site? Has some good pictures of the Red River and Gulf.
http://www.msrailroads.com/Louisiana_RRs.htmJust North of the gravel pit I told you about was another one
that had been shut down. Two locomotives were stored there;
one was an ex- Louisiana Midland 509. I can't find a picture I
took but found one on the Mississippi Rails site that was taken
at the gravel pit in 1954 when the engine was in operation. I
did some research and somehow the engine survived and is
on display at a railroad museum in Tennessee.
Then the talk changed to his home turf railroad, the Durango and Silverton.
I have ridden the train several times, the first in the early fifties.
I was in Silverton in August of this year. I live ....... about 125
miles from Silverton. A few friends and I go camping and jeeping
in this area once a year. Here are some pictures I took of Silverton.
Two trains were in town then.
Me: You can see the depot. These shots get larger when clicked.
Hit you "back button" to return. Wouldn't want you to get lost.
A train in the turn around wye.
Me: If you ride the D&S RR, be prepared for cold fog. Do not
let that detour you . Ride in the open air cars. Dress in
layers, bring a blanket and heat some bricks to keep your
feet warm.
Me: It is one of the "coolest" rides around. The Cumbres and Toltec
in Charma, New Mexico is a "must", also. No bricks required.
Me:About that he added:
I haven't ridden to Cumbres and Toltec but followed it from
Chama to the top of the pass in my car about twenty years ago.
Me: Now there's some "chasing trans".
Me: Just as a tease, it seemed, he added this:
I live in Colorado now. There are a lot of abandoned narrow
gauge railroads in the mountains here. I used to ride dirt
bikes on some of them which was really fun.
Me: I mentioned my son was thinking about doing some jeep
trails in the mountains around Silverton.
Jim on Jeeping:
..... I went Jeeping all over Colorado. A Tahoe could do most of
the trails here. They are old wagon roads built during the
mining boom of the 1880's. They used to be really rough but
are better now, the counties keep them up for the tourist that
come here and rent Jeeps. ATV's are really popular here also.
The area between Ouray, Telluride and Silverton has some of
the best scenery and historic mining remains in the state. ..........
I am sending some pictures from our trip in August. These
are old wagon roads between Ouray and Silverton. You need
a four wheel drive with low range due to steep grades and
ground clearance.
Me: Acrophobiacs should not look at these. They, like all on
this page, expand when clicked.
Then he did a bit of sleuthing that about the possibility of
a remaining engine at the Woodworth sand pits. The
information turned out to be out of date but led to more.
His research netted these links:
Just found this tonight
http://www.flickr.com/photos/midwestrailfan/2509482983/
Looks like it was sold earlier and is now at this museum in Tennessee.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/midwestrailfan/2510937065/Putting that in the rear view mirror, he moved on.
Jiim:
Just South of the pit where the T&G engine was working was another abandoned pit. Tracks ran about a mile west of the highway and this ex-Army 0-6-0 T was abandoned at the end of the track. There were faded letters U.S.A. on the side of the cab above the numbers. I did some research and the Army ordered quit a few of these during the war and shipped many overseas. I went back to this location in the mid 80's but the tracks and engine were gone. I guess you have seen the Army movies made of the railroad at Camp Claiborne on U-Tube? Sorry about the wrong information on engine 69 but at least you didn't go there on a wild goose chase.
Me: I love wild geese. Bring them on. There is always some golden goose egg that shows up.
Back to Jim:
Here is a video of one in Germany, you can get the idea.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0wvPDgDloA
Here are his pictures of the little sand pit ex-Army 0-6-0 T
That's going to do it for this Monday morning's run through the streets.
More later. Thanks Jim for sharing all of this with us!!!
This write is in progress. It will disappear shortly to be finished.
For the last few months, it seems, I have been receiving an avalanche of information from a visitor who lives in Colorado. What drew him to the site were my visits to Oakdale where he had/has family and good memories that have perpetuated an interest in historical and present day railroads.
I suggested to Jim that he organize his wealth of information and pictures and put it together on a blog or website. He sited a lack of patience and a few other reasons for not going down that track which I well respect and with which I identify. Mercy, do I identify.
One of my visitors nailed me as a "frustrated teacher". Right or wrong, I do have a need not to let information, especially historical, die on the vine. It is wasteful and I hate wasting anything. In that vein I'm going to post everything that Jim has ever laid on me here. When you write me and there's something of value in your lines, it does not get thrown away. No, Jim, I'm not going to mention the beer cooler. So relax. I am also reverent to request not to publish, if you remember to mention that. Otherwise, all is fair game.
That over, and summoning my awesome powers of patience, as they say on the railroads, "Here we go!"
I will not put these in any chronological order, or in any order of what I feel is more or less interesting. My point is, don't expect this to have a crescendo. I know there are crescendo fetishist among you and I don't want to disappoint.
The Introduction
I do believe Jim would have a future in the blogs if he'd give it a try. I get cliff hanger statements, like this all the time, " I have got to go now but tomorrow I will tell you how I acquired my knowledge of diesel locomotives".
Patience, ah oooooom. After a sleepless night ......
"The reason I know a lot about locomotives (not really that much) is that Coors had six EMD switch engines. They employed three full time locomotive mechanics and had an enclosed shop with a pit in the floor to work on parts under the locomotives as well. I usually had to go by the shop a few times a week to check on something and would talk to the mechanics. There was usually one engine in the shop being worked on: changing out a cylinder, electrical problems, etc. I got to understand how a locomotive worked pretty well. They also had four large electric jacks to raise the locomotive to remove the trucks when they needed to be sent out to have the wheels turned or the traction motors repaired. I also got to run the locomotives some when things were slow and my partner could handle our office job by himself.
The Burlington Northern ran three trains a day from Denver to Golden at the time. Coors was shipping about 500 carloads of beer a week. Coors had about 18 miles of tracks on the property. The BN would bring the inbound train with empty returning cars to one yard and then go to another yard where loaded cars were spotted waiting to be shipped. Many times my job required me to be at the outbound yard when the BN was switching the loaded cars making up the train to go back to Denver. I got to know some of the engineers and would ride in the engine with them for a few minutes when they were switching the cars out. The road engines were usually EMD's but some times GE's were used.
One day when GE's were used I rode with an engineer I knew because I had never been in a GE engine before. The yard was on a two percent grade and after the engines had quite a few cars coupled on to them the wheels were slipping a lot and the sanders wouldn't work. He told me: "I hate these GE engines. Hell, I wouldn't even buy a GE light bulb". Most of the engineers told me they liked EMD's a lot better. Also, a loaded car of beer weighed about 250,000 pounds and sometimes the outbound trains had fifty or more cars. Some of the cars would be empty hoppers though because a lot of barley and rice was shipped in. By the way, a rail car would hold 7200 cases of 12 oz. cans; those were called straight loads. There were also a lot of mixed loads with bottles, cans of different sizes, and kegs. Looking back I guess that was a pretty interesting job I had".
This is from another mention of Coors, "When I worked at Coors the Burlington ran three trains a day from Denver to Golden, known as the "beer run". Coors was shipping about 500 rail cars of beer a week and the trains averaged 60-70 cars each. Empties for beer plus rice and barley hoppers arrived and loaded beer departed. This was a gravy run for the train crews because it was only 20 miles and they usually worked twelve hours a day or less and were home every night. I used to ride on the engine sometimes when they were switching the yard. They mostly used EMD SD 40-2 locomotives which had an unusual whistling sound when idling. EMD used to have the market share of locomotives but GM sold the company several years ago and now GE has about 70 percent of the market".
Me:I would have been a cat in a catnip factory.
More, centered around my posting a ride where I saw 12 CSX engines lashed together, "I saw an interesting show on the History Channel recently about GE building locomotives. Their latest one has a 12 cylinder engine with more horsepower and better fuel economy that the 16 cylinder model it replaced. I noticed the first two CSX engines behind the BNSF engines were EMD's. I hardly ever see an EMD engine out here, everything on the UP and BNSF are GE's. I think the UP has a couple of ex-Rio Grande switchers here they use for a run on a branch line south of here that has light rail and speed restrictions. I'll try to get you some pictures".
Me: Oh yes, there will be "pictures".
Then he sent this about his latest job in CO.
"I guess I am engine nut. Also cars, truck, and airplanes(I have a pilot's license) but haven't flown in years except with friends here who have planes. I have ridden and run a steam locomotive and have driven trucks for the last few years for a friend. I have been bored for the last two months because I told my friend I wouldn't drive another winter between here and Denver. It was a 520 mile round trip crossing the continental divide four times and sheer horror in the winter on steep mountain grades. I'll send you some trucking pictures".
Me: those later.
A lot of the stuff coming from CO were reflections on and additions to my ride reports such as this, speaking of the historic DeQuincy RR station. , "I believe this is where the passenger train stopped to be re-iced for the air conditioning system of the passenger cars I told you about. The gravel strip in the foreground next to the track was where the carts with the blocks of fresh ice were pulled up next to the train and put into the compartments under the cars. I remember the station now after looking at your picture".
That really made me feel good that one of my pictures stirred an old memory. The memory was of a trip he'd taken with his grandmother, if my memory serves me.
Then I'd get these offers:
"By the way, I looked at the DVD of train movies my brother had made from 8mm movies we took many years ago. There are pictures of the gravel pits, paper mill at Elizabeth, the engines at Long Leaf, the MC&SA in Texas, and last freight runs of the Rio Grande narrow gauge from Alamosa to Chama. I would be glad to burn a copy and send it to you if you are interested".
Picture me slack jawed. An avalanche came in the mail. I had to ask him to re explain what was in the films, again, which tells me that "patience" is not one of his reasons for not doing a blog, because he sure did exhibit that quality with me.
His answers hint at the menu of cool stuff in those movies.
Here are the answers:
1) Cab forward shots are from a commercial movie my brother got and added to the home movies.
2) That was the MC&SA combined freight and passenger that ran from Camden,TX to Moscow, TX. The railroad was owned by the Carter Bros. Lumber Co. The first small engine being turned on the turntable was lettered for the MC&SA. They later replaced it with the #14 which was lettered for the Carter Bros. Lumber Co. That is the one I rode on with pictures I took in the cab. It was too long for the turntable at Moscow and was run in reverse back to Camden. The MC&SA connected with the SP on their line form Houston to Lufkin.
Me: Are you drooling yet?
3) The engine with the oil tank tender was the switcher at the paper mill in Elizabeth. I'm sure you recognized #15 at the gravel pit (like the pictures I sent you).
4) Engines 202 and 400 were taken at Long Leaf around 1956. They are in the same place now except number 202 has been moved inside the machine shop. You have been on a tour of the mill haven't you? If you haven't you need to go. It's three miles South of Forrest hill. My brother and I went there last month. He and you are the same age.
5) SP 771 was taken in Houston about 1957. They had a flood on the Trinity River on the line between Houston and Beaumont. They were using it because diesels would short out the traction motors going through the high water.
6) Rio Grande #473 was taken North of Durango on the Silverton Branch.
7) Last pictures were taken between Alamosa and Chama in 1967 by my brother. This was the last year of freight operations on the narrow gauge which is now part of the Cumbres and Toltec RR. Some of the pictures are in the yard at Chama and then from Chama to the summit of Cumbres pass.
I am going to make you a VHS copy of the videos my brother made riding the locomotive of the Austin train and then one when we chased the UP Challenger from Cheyenne to Laramie about 20 years ago. You will notice it burned coal then but has since been converted to oil because it started too many fires along the right of way due to cinders blown out of the smokestack. It is a 4-6-6-4 articulated type. They keep it in Cheyenne and run it occasionally. I have videos when they brought it to Texas about 15 years ago. I have videos of that too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OgSNQOTw2U
One more bit of info on the home movie I sent. Some are taken on the Moscow, Camden, and St. Augustine. Are you familiar with it? It was owned by the Carter Brothers Lumber Co. and ran 7 miles from Camden to Moscow where it connected with the SP. Passengers could ride the round trip for fifty cents in an 1890's coach at the rear of the freight train. At the first of the movie you will see they had a small 2-8-0 that was turned on a turntable at Moscow. Later in the film you will see a larger 2-8-2 locomotive that had to run in reverse on the return trip as it was too long to fit on the turntable. My father knew one the owners and they let me ride with the crew on a trip to Moscow and back as you will see in the film. At one point the engineer let me sit on the seat beside him and run the engine. I think I was about 15 at the time. When we got back to Camden one of the crew took me under the mill where a large Corliss steam engine was running. It powered the whole mill as I remember and was a lot larger than the ones at Longleaf. I wish I had taken pictures of that too. Also it would have been great to have a video camera then.
Steve, check the pictures out. Number 14 was the engine I rode on.
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1104.htm
This is his original explanation which, evidently, I could not remember.
"The first movies of the SP are commercial ones my brother added. The engine with the tank tender that looks like a bathtub is the one filmed at the paper mill in Elizabeth. Others are ones I took on family vacations. The last are ones my brother took on the last days of narrow gauge operations between Alamosa and Chama. Since you have ridden the Cumbres and Toltec you will recognize some of the locations".
By the way, do you still have a VCR? My brother shot some videos standing on the back of a tender of an SP 2-8-2 some people he knew fixed up and ran in Austin on an excursion railroad. I'll bet there are no videos like this anywhere. No railroad would let someone do this for insurance reasons. I know you would enjoy seeing them. If you don't have a VCR I'll get my friend here to transfer them to a DVD. Maybe you are familiar with the Austin Steam Train? A couple of years ago a major part cracked on the engine(which had been repaired in years ago in the SP shops in Algiers, LA).
MORE INFO TO BE DISPERSED:
I sent you a VHS video I made that has the following:
Video my brother made riding in the engine on the Austin train engine 786.
Chasing the UP 3985 in Wyoming.
A copy of a commercial video I have on the Uintah Railway. Hard to believe employees took movies of the railroad in the 20's and 30's.
A film clip from a MGM silent movie made in the 20's that featured snow removal operations on the Moffat Road on Rollins Pass. I had never looked at these until yesterday. My brother must have given them to me years ago and I never bothered to view them. I don't know if you are familiar with this but it was a railroad built over the Continental Divide West of Denver and used until the Moffat tunnel was completed in 1927. I have gone over the abandoned road bed many times and even rode my dirt bike on it years ago. There is a place where an engine went off the side of the mountain. A temporary track was built and the engine hauled up but the cab and front of the boiler were left. They were still there the last time I went
I found these pictures my brother took three years ago near the gravel pits I told you about south of Woodworth. I believe this is the engine stored next to Louisiana Midland 509. I can't believe it's still there and some one hasn't taken the bell, number plate and headlight. I also can't believe I was within 5 miles of there last month and didn't try to find the engine. My brother now lives in Austin and we went to Oakdale and the next day to Long Leaf and took a tour of the mill. We left Forest Hill about 2:00 and took the highway that goes through Camp Caliborne to Leesville on our way back to Austin. He said the engine is not far off highway 165. Google Woodworth, La. and then open the satellite map to the right and zoom in. I believe it's near the first gravel pit south of Woodworth across from the airport. Last time I was there was in the mid 60's and both engines were there and airport was there across the highway. Of course these pictures are three years old and I don't know if the engine is still there. Maybe you can check it out if you get up there.
I found these two photos I took in an album I have. This is the T&G engine I rode on. Pictures are poor quality and this is best I could do retouching them. From the roster on Mississippi rails it was scrapped in 1964. Also a picture I took at Long Leaf in the early fifties of engine 202. Notice the whistle, bell, and number plate on the front are still there. I think they have been stolen since then. JIMFrom a roster I found on the Mississippi Rails site it was the Alexandria Gravel Company at Woodworth. Must have been around 1958 when I went there. Here is a small picture of the T&G engine I found on some web site. Looks like it was taken at the gravel pit. I have movies I took and had transferred to DVD. I don't know if I could download them to my hard drive and send them to you are not.
Looks like it was sold earlier and is now at this museum in Tennessee.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/midwestrailfan/2510937065/
Just North of the gravel pit I told you about was another one that had been shut down. Two locomotives were stored there; one was an ex- Louisiana Midland 509. I can't find a picture I took but found one on the Mississippi Rails site that was taken at the gravel pit in 1954 when the engine was in operation. I did some research and somehow the engine survived and is on display at a railroad museum in Tennessee. Just South of the pit where the T&G engine was working was another abandoned pit. Tracks ran about a mile west of the highway and this ex-Army 0-6-0 T was abandoned at the end of the track. There were faded letters U.S.A. on the side of the cab above the numbers. I did some research and the Army ordered quit a few of these during the war and shipped many overseas. I went back to this location in the mid 80's but the tracks and engine were gone. I guess you have seen the Army movies made of the railroad at Camp Claiborne on U-Tube? Sorry about the wrong information on engine 69 but at least you didn't go there on a wild goose chase.
Just found this tonight. Maybe it's gone.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/midwestrailfan/2509482983/
COLORADO AND UTAH EXPLORING
Here is a map of the Needles Dist. You can see where you were to the North. I have never been to the Maze District to the west. It's a 75 mile drive down a dirt road just to get there and no water, services, nothing. You have to take lots of water and at least 15 gallons of gas. I know people who have gone there but I never will. Near that area is where that guy got trapped and had to cut his arm off.
MISC LINKS
I was going to take some pictures for you on the Montrose branch south of here but found this site that had more information and better pictures than I could have taken.
http://www.actionroad.net/DRGWLPD2/NorthFork.htm
Concerning the movie "Unstoppable". This is the real deal.
I found this by accident. Hard to believe it happened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSX_8888_incident
This is an interesting history.
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/cabforward/
Questions and answers:
The Austin Railroad:
Now I saw that the Texas engine was a T&NO, the same as the engine in New Orleans, what 745. You said that they are the same model? Excuse me, it's easier to ask again than to remember.
Jim:
SP engines are sisters, Texas had a law that all railroads operating in Texas had to have headquarters there. SP operating in Texas was the Texas and New Orleans subsidiary. That engine(786) spent a lot of time in Louisiana.
Now the Oakdale trail of information
http://binged.it/tuBcNg
I had sent him a large map which included the intersection of the MP and J&E where a gate was found. At the stem of the wye seen on the Bing map is where I got hassled by the cops for parking on the side of the road.
Did you ever look closely at this map you sent? If you zoom in about half way is the best. A date at the bottom is either 1923 or 1929 and it must have been made by the Santa Fe. It shows a coal bin so they must not have converted to oil yet. It also shows the gate where they crossed the MP. I knew there must have been a wye to turn the engines but didn't know where until I looked at this map. It is east of town across from the hardwood mill. If I had known where it was I would have tried to find it when I was there in September..
Now I can't find the map. But, I will and share it here.
From one of the Hardwood Restauant's pictures he mentioned this:
Here is one of your pictures. Looks like there were originally two separate companies, with a mill in Glenmora and Fuller as a partner. By the 50's the mill in Glenmora was gone and I guess everything consolidated in Oakdale. I remember one day Bill Fuller took my grandfather and me to check out a logging operation north of Oakdale. He had a brand new '56 Buick hardtop. We went down these rough and muddy dirt roads to the logging site, dragging bottom at times. When we got back I told my grandfather I couldn't believe he took this new Buick on those roads. He said, don't worry, they have lots of money. I wonder what happened to the Fuller family?
Bill was the only one I knew and he was probably in his early 30's in the fifties. It said the C&P military rr used part of an abandoned HDE ROW. It amazing how many miles of logging railroads there were in that area.
I found this picture by accident. A man named Fuller bought out Deutsch of the Hillyer Deutsch Edwards hardwood mill and the name was changed. My grandfather knew Fuller and his son Bill. I remember one day Bill Fuller came by the store to show my grandfather his new car, '56 Corvette. He took me for a ride out to the old Alexandria highway which had recently been paved and got it up to over 100 and scared the hell out of me. I was probably 14 at the time. I also remember the mill had a loud whistle that was blown at noon and quitting time. My grandparent's house was probably three miles from the mill but you could hear the whistle very well from there.
I found this picture by accident.. HEF Inc.
Then he found a discussion on line featuring some familiar names.
I found this later. Scroll down to the comments. Looks like H-E-F sold the engine to Davis Lumber Co. in Ansley, La, in 1940. I looked the town up and it's in northern LA near Ruston.
Edwards Fuller Lumber Company 2-6-0 102
Hillyer Edwards Fuller Lumber Company 2-6-0 102 was built by Vulcan in October, 1915 for the Oakdale & Gulf Railway in Louisiana, a short logging railroad. {I'll break in, it went to Pine Prairie over on La.13}
After the railroad's abandonment in 1927 she was sold to Hillyer Edwards Fuller Inc., another lumber company in Louisiana. She had 50" drivers, 17 x 24 inch cylinders, and was configured as a wood burner. This view from my collection shows H-E-F lumber 102 at Ausley, Louisiana in July, 1941.
As always, comments, corrections, locations and additional photos are welcome.
Re: Hillyer Edwards Fuller Lumber Company 2-6-0 102
This picture was taken after the loco was sold by HDE to Davis Brothers Lumber in Ansley, LA. Davis was not known for their extensive maintainence on their engines. The engine was originally built for the Serbian Government just before World War one and never delivered.
Flying over Camp Claiborne:
I worked as a pilot for a pipeline patrol company out of Houston in the mid sixties. I had a new Cessna and a special waver from the FAA to fly at low altitudes. My boss would let me use the plane at times if I bought the gas. One time I flew to Oakdale and then to Camp Claiborne. I always wanted to see if I could fly along the abandoned road bed at low altitudes. Well, there was a restricted area for aircraft around Camp Claiborne for some kind of practice used by the Air Force base at Alexandria. That didn't bother me too much as I had never seen any activity from the ground when I had been there and figured if I could fly about 200-300 feet above the ground as I did on pipeline patrol I would be below radar coverage and no one would see me. I dropped to a low altitude before I entered the restricted area and found the big cut easily as there were no trees there then. I found the old road bed and followed it at low altitude for ten miles or so. It was easy to see as the trees weren't that tall then and most of the ties were left. Finally the trees got thicker and I couldn't see the road bed any more so I climbed to a cruising altitude and went back to Houston. I noticed in your pictures none of the ties were left.
This building where your bike is parked was the old Delta Theatre. I think the building is original with the balcony added and front remodeled. I went to a lot of movies there with my cousins. The water tank for the locomotives was just to the south of this building. I remember it was old and water was constantly leaking out..
Thought you might like to see this picture my mother took of my father, brother, and me in August 1950. This was a Southbound Missouri Pacific local from Alexandria that had gone into the siding. I think the crew had gone to lunch. This was right across from my grand parent's house and general store at the intersection of 7th street and Highway 165. Just South of here was the depot and freight station which are now gone. Two passenger trains a day went through Oakdale from Lake Charles to Little Rock. I also used to go to a gravel pit north of Forrest Hill that had a used Tremont and Gulf engine they used to switch cars to the Missouri Pacific. The crew let me ride on the engine with them. Looking back I'm lucky I didn't get hurt.
.
This is from another mention of Coors, "When I worked at Coors the Burlington ran three trains a day from Denver to Golden, known as the "beer run". Coors was shipping about 500 rail cars of beer a week and the trains averaged 60-70 cars each. Empties for beer plus rice and barley hoppers arrived and loaded beer departed. This was a gravy run for the train crews because it was only 20 miles and they usually worked twelve hours a day or less and were home every night. I used to ride on the engine sometimes when they were switching the yard. They mostly used EMD SD 40-2 locomotives which had an unusual whistling sound when idling. EMD used to have the market share of locomotives but GM sold the company several years ago and now GE has about 70 percent of the market".
Me:I would have been a cat in a catnip factory.
More, centered around my posting a ride where I saw 12 CSX engines lashed together, "I saw an interesting show on the History Channel recently about GE building locomotives. Their latest one has a 12 cylinder engine with more horsepower and better fuel economy that the 16 cylinder model it replaced. I noticed the first two CSX engines behind the BNSF engines were EMD's. I hardly ever see an EMD engine out here, everything on the UP and BNSF are GE's. I think the UP has a couple of ex-Rio Grande switchers here they use for a run on a branch line south of here that has light rail and speed restrictions. I'll try to get you some pictures".
Me: Oh yes, there will be "pictures".
Then he sent this about his latest job in CO.
"I guess I am engine nut. Also cars, truck, and airplanes(I have a pilot's license) but haven't flown in years except with friends here who have planes. I have ridden and run a steam locomotive and have driven trucks for the last few years for a friend. I have been bored for the last two months because I told my friend I wouldn't drive another winter between here and Denver. It was a 520 mile round trip crossing the continental divide four times and sheer horror in the winter on steep mountain grades. I'll send you some trucking pictures".
Me: those later.
A lot of the stuff coming from CO were reflections on and additions to my ride reports such as this, speaking of the historic DeQuincy RR station. , "I believe this is where the passenger train stopped to be re-iced for the air conditioning system of the passenger cars I told you about. The gravel strip in the foreground next to the track was where the carts with the blocks of fresh ice were pulled up next to the train and put into the compartments under the cars. I remember the station now after looking at your picture".
That really made me feel good that one of my pictures stirred an old memory. The memory was of a trip he'd taken with his grandmother, if my memory serves me.
Then I'd get these offers:
"By the way, I looked at the DVD of train movies my brother had made from 8mm movies we took many years ago. There are pictures of the gravel pits, paper mill at Elizabeth, the engines at Long Leaf, the MC&SA in Texas, and last freight runs of the Rio Grande narrow gauge from Alamosa to Chama. I would be glad to burn a copy and send it to you if you are interested".
Picture me slack jawed. An avalanche came in the mail. I had to ask him to re explain what was in the films, again, which tells me that "patience" is not one of his reasons for not doing a blog, because he sure did exhibit that quality with me.
His answers hint at the menu of cool stuff in those movies.
Here are the answers:
1) Cab forward shots are from a commercial movie my brother got and added to the home movies.
2) That was the MC&SA combined freight and passenger that ran from Camden,TX to Moscow, TX. The railroad was owned by the Carter Bros. Lumber Co. The first small engine being turned on the turntable was lettered for the MC&SA. They later replaced it with the #14 which was lettered for the Carter Bros. Lumber Co. That is the one I rode on with pictures I took in the cab. It was too long for the turntable at Moscow and was run in reverse back to Camden. The MC&SA connected with the SP on their line form Houston to Lufkin.
Me: Are you drooling yet?
3) The engine with the oil tank tender was the switcher at the paper mill in Elizabeth. I'm sure you recognized #15 at the gravel pit (like the pictures I sent you).
4) Engines 202 and 400 were taken at Long Leaf around 1956. They are in the same place now except number 202 has been moved inside the machine shop. You have been on a tour of the mill haven't you? If you haven't you need to go. It's three miles South of Forrest hill. My brother and I went there last month. He and you are the same age.
5) SP 771 was taken in Houston about 1957. They had a flood on the Trinity River on the line between Houston and Beaumont. They were using it because diesels would short out the traction motors going through the high water.
6) Rio Grande #473 was taken North of Durango on the Silverton Branch.
7) Last pictures were taken between Alamosa and Chama in 1967 by my brother. This was the last year of freight operations on the narrow gauge which is now part of the Cumbres and Toltec RR. Some of the pictures are in the yard at Chama and then from Chama to the summit of Cumbres pass.
I am going to make you a VHS copy of the videos my brother made riding the locomotive of the Austin train and then one when we chased the UP Challenger from Cheyenne to Laramie about 20 years ago. You will notice it burned coal then but has since been converted to oil because it started too many fires along the right of way due to cinders blown out of the smokestack. It is a 4-6-6-4 articulated type. They keep it in Cheyenne and run it occasionally. I have videos when they brought it to Texas about 15 years ago. I have videos of that too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OgSNQOTw2U
One more bit of info on the home movie I sent. Some are taken on the Moscow, Camden, and St. Augustine. Are you familiar with it? It was owned by the Carter Brothers Lumber Co. and ran 7 miles from Camden to Moscow where it connected with the SP. Passengers could ride the round trip for fifty cents in an 1890's coach at the rear of the freight train. At the first of the movie you will see they had a small 2-8-0 that was turned on a turntable at Moscow. Later in the film you will see a larger 2-8-2 locomotive that had to run in reverse on the return trip as it was too long to fit on the turntable. My father knew one the owners and they let me ride with the crew on a trip to Moscow and back as you will see in the film. At one point the engineer let me sit on the seat beside him and run the engine. I think I was about 15 at the time. When we got back to Camden one of the crew took me under the mill where a large Corliss steam engine was running. It powered the whole mill as I remember and was a lot larger than the ones at Longleaf. I wish I had taken pictures of that too. Also it would have been great to have a video camera then.
Steve, check the pictures out. Number 14 was the engine I rode on.
http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1104.htm
This is his original explanation which, evidently, I could not remember.
"The first movies of the SP are commercial ones my brother added. The engine with the tank tender that looks like a bathtub is the one filmed at the paper mill in Elizabeth. Others are ones I took on family vacations. The last are ones my brother took on the last days of narrow gauge operations between Alamosa and Chama. Since you have ridden the Cumbres and Toltec you will recognize some of the locations".
By the way, do you still have a VCR? My brother shot some videos standing on the back of a tender of an SP 2-8-2 some people he knew fixed up and ran in Austin on an excursion railroad. I'll bet there are no videos like this anywhere. No railroad would let someone do this for insurance reasons. I know you would enjoy seeing them. If you don't have a VCR I'll get my friend here to transfer them to a DVD. Maybe you are familiar with the Austin Steam Train? A couple of years ago a major part cracked on the engine(which had been repaired in years ago in the SP shops in Algiers, LA).
MORE INFO TO BE DISPERSED:
I sent you a VHS video I made that has the following:
Video my brother made riding in the engine on the Austin train engine 786.
Chasing the UP 3985 in Wyoming.
A copy of a commercial video I have on the Uintah Railway. Hard to believe employees took movies of the railroad in the 20's and 30's.
A film clip from a MGM silent movie made in the 20's that featured snow removal operations on the Moffat Road on Rollins Pass. I had never looked at these until yesterday. My brother must have given them to me years ago and I never bothered to view them. I don't know if you are familiar with this but it was a railroad built over the Continental Divide West of Denver and used until the Moffat tunnel was completed in 1927. I have gone over the abandoned road bed many times and even rode my dirt bike on it years ago. There is a place where an engine went off the side of the mountain. A temporary track was built and the engine hauled up but the cab and front of the boiler were left. They were still there the last time I went
I found these pictures my brother took three years ago near the gravel pits I told you about south of Woodworth. I believe this is the engine stored next to Louisiana Midland 509. I can't believe it's still there and some one hasn't taken the bell, number plate and headlight. I also can't believe I was within 5 miles of there last month and didn't try to find the engine. My brother now lives in Austin and we went to Oakdale and the next day to Long Leaf and took a tour of the mill. We left Forest Hill about 2:00 and took the highway that goes through Camp Caliborne to Leesville on our way back to Austin. He said the engine is not far off highway 165. Google Woodworth, La. and then open the satellite map to the right and zoom in. I believe it's near the first gravel pit south of Woodworth across from the airport. Last time I was there was in the mid 60's and both engines were there and airport was there across the highway. Of course these pictures are three years old and I don't know if the engine is still there. Maybe you can check it out if you get up there.
I found these two photos I took in an album I have. This is the T&G engine I rode on. Pictures are poor quality and this is best I could do retouching them. From the roster on Mississippi rails it was scrapped in 1964. Also a picture I took at Long Leaf in the early fifties of engine 202. Notice the whistle, bell, and number plate on the front are still there. I think they have been stolen since then. JIMFrom a roster I found on the Mississippi Rails site it was the Alexandria Gravel Company at Woodworth. Must have been around 1958 when I went there. Here is a small picture of the T&G engine I found on some web site. Looks like it was taken at the gravel pit. I have movies I took and had transferred to DVD. I don't know if I could download them to my hard drive and send them to you are not.
Just found this tonite. Maybe it's gone.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/midwestrailfan/2509482983/.Looks like it was sold earlier and is now at this museum in Tennessee.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/midwestrailfan/2510937065/
Just North of the gravel pit I told you about was another one that had been shut down. Two locomotives were stored there; one was an ex- Louisiana Midland 509. I can't find a picture I took but found one on the Mississippi Rails site that was taken at the gravel pit in 1954 when the engine was in operation. I did some research and somehow the engine survived and is on display at a railroad museum in Tennessee. Just South of the pit where the T&G engine was working was another abandoned pit. Tracks ran about a mile west of the highway and this ex-Army 0-6-0 T was abandoned at the end of the track. There were faded letters U.S.A. on the side of the cab above the numbers. I did some research and the Army ordered quit a few of these during the war and shipped many overseas. I went back to this location in the mid 80's but the tracks and engine were gone. I guess you have seen the Army movies made of the railroad at Camp Claiborne on U-Tube? Sorry about the wrong information on engine 69 but at least you didn't go there on a wild goose chase.
Just found this tonight. Maybe it's gone.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/midwestrailfan/2509482983/
COLORADO AND UTAH EXPLORING
Here is a map of the Needles Dist. You can see where you were to the North. I have never been to the Maze District to the west. It's a 75 mile drive down a dirt road just to get there and no water, services, nothing. You have to take lots of water and at least 15 gallons of gas. I know people who have gone there but I never will. Near that area is where that guy got trapped and had to cut his arm off.
MISC LINKS
I was going to take some pictures for you on the Montrose branch south of here but found this site that had more information and better pictures than I could have taken.
http://www.actionroad.net/DRGWLPD2/NorthFork.htm
Concerning the movie "Unstoppable". This is the real deal.
I found this by accident. Hard to believe it happened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSX_8888_incident
This is an interesting history.
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/cabforward/
Questions and answers:
The Austin Railroad:
Now I saw that the Texas engine was a T&NO, the same as the engine in New Orleans, what 745. You said that they are the same model? Excuse me, it's easier to ask again than to remember.
Jim:
SP engines are sisters, Texas had a law that all railroads operating in Texas had to have headquarters there. SP operating in Texas was the Texas and New Orleans subsidiary. That engine(786) spent a lot of time in Louisiana.
Now the Oakdale trail of information
Looks like the wye is still there. Looks like you could park off Hardwood Mill Road and walk back to the main line of the Santa Fe. I wonder if any ties are left?
Bing Mapshttp://binged.it/tuBcNg
I had sent him a large map which included the intersection of the MP and J&E where a gate was found. At the stem of the wye seen on the Bing map is where I got hassled by the cops for parking on the side of the road.
Did you ever look closely at this map you sent? If you zoom in about half way is the best. A date at the bottom is either 1923 or 1929 and it must have been made by the Santa Fe. It shows a coal bin so they must not have converted to oil yet. It also shows the gate where they crossed the MP. I knew there must have been a wye to turn the engines but didn't know where until I looked at this map. It is east of town across from the hardwood mill. If I had known where it was I would have tried to find it when I was there in September..
Now I can't find the map. But, I will and share it here.
From one of the Hardwood Restauant's pictures he mentioned this:
Here is one of your pictures. Looks like there were originally two separate companies, with a mill in Glenmora and Fuller as a partner. By the 50's the mill in Glenmora was gone and I guess everything consolidated in Oakdale. I remember one day Bill Fuller took my grandfather and me to check out a logging operation north of Oakdale. He had a brand new '56 Buick hardtop. We went down these rough and muddy dirt roads to the logging site, dragging bottom at times. When we got back I told my grandfather I couldn't believe he took this new Buick on those roads. He said, don't worry, they have lots of money. I wonder what happened to the Fuller family?
Bill was the only one I knew and he was probably in his early 30's in the fifties. It said the C&P military rr used part of an abandoned HDE ROW. It amazing how many miles of logging railroads there were in that area.
I found this picture by accident. A man named Fuller bought out Deutsch of the Hillyer Deutsch Edwards hardwood mill and the name was changed. My grandfather knew Fuller and his son Bill. I remember one day Bill Fuller came by the store to show my grandfather his new car, '56 Corvette. He took me for a ride out to the old Alexandria highway which had recently been paved and got it up to over 100 and scared the hell out of me. I was probably 14 at the time. I also remember the mill had a loud whistle that was blown at noon and quitting time. My grandparent's house was probably three miles from the mill but you could hear the whistle very well from there.
I found this picture by accident.. HEF Inc.
Then he found a discussion on line featuring some familiar names.
I found this later. Scroll down to the comments. Looks like H-E-F sold the engine to Davis Lumber Co. in Ansley, La, in 1940. I looked the town up and it's in northern LA near Ruston.
Edwards Fuller Lumber Company 2-6-0 102
Hillyer Edwards Fuller Lumber Company 2-6-0 102 was built by Vulcan in October, 1915 for the Oakdale & Gulf Railway in Louisiana, a short logging railroad. {I'll break in, it went to Pine Prairie over on La.13}
After the railroad's abandonment in 1927 she was sold to Hillyer Edwards Fuller Inc., another lumber company in Louisiana. She had 50" drivers, 17 x 24 inch cylinders, and was configured as a wood burner. This view from my collection shows H-E-F lumber 102 at Ausley, Louisiana in July, 1941.
As always, comments, corrections, locations and additional photos are welcome.
Re: Hillyer Edwards Fuller Lumber Company 2-6-0 102
This picture was taken after the loco was sold by HDE to Davis Brothers Lumber in Ansley, LA. Davis was not known for their extensive maintainence on their engines. The engine was originally built for the Serbian Government just before World War one and never delivered.
Flying over Camp Claiborne:
I worked as a pilot for a pipeline patrol company out of Houston in the mid sixties. I had a new Cessna and a special waver from the FAA to fly at low altitudes. My boss would let me use the plane at times if I bought the gas. One time I flew to Oakdale and then to Camp Claiborne. I always wanted to see if I could fly along the abandoned road bed at low altitudes. Well, there was a restricted area for aircraft around Camp Claiborne for some kind of practice used by the Air Force base at Alexandria. That didn't bother me too much as I had never seen any activity from the ground when I had been there and figured if I could fly about 200-300 feet above the ground as I did on pipeline patrol I would be below radar coverage and no one would see me. I dropped to a low altitude before I entered the restricted area and found the big cut easily as there were no trees there then. I found the old road bed and followed it at low altitude for ten miles or so. It was easy to see as the trees weren't that tall then and most of the ties were left. Finally the trees got thicker and I couldn't see the road bed any more so I climbed to a cruising altitude and went back to Houston. I noticed in your pictures none of the ties were left.
This building where your bike is parked was the old Delta Theatre. I think the building is original with the balcony added and front remodeled. I went to a lot of movies there with my cousins. The water tank for the locomotives was just to the south of this building. I remember it was old and water was constantly leaking out..
Thought you might like to see this picture my mother took of my father, brother, and me in August 1950. This was a Southbound Missouri Pacific local from Alexandria that had gone into the siding. I think the crew had gone to lunch. This was right across from my grand parent's house and general store at the intersection of 7th street and Highway 165. Just South of here was the depot and freight station which are now gone. Two passenger trains a day went through Oakdale from Lake Charles to Little Rock. I also used to go to a gravel pit north of Forrest Hill that had a used Tremont and Gulf engine they used to switch cars to the Missouri Pacific. The crew let me ride on the engine with them. Looking back I'm lucky I didn't get hurt.
.